|| INTERVIEW #3: TIME & HISTORY, PART 1 C| O| P| (I heard from Elbod again in early February. I was Y| starting to resent his haphazard manner, his R| arbitrariness, his aloofness, his own sense of himself as I| one of those modern day romantic heroes that he maligned. G| I resolved to be a bit aloof myself, indeed to treat the H| man more as an ordinary man, and not this special person T| he had set himself out to be. || And yet, as usual, I was unprepared for what I was 1| to see. He invited me to an old church in Durham that was 9| being restored. I arrived about eleven in the morning, 8| under an overcast sky which was still quite bright. I 9| went upstairs and found him teaching very young children. || Kirk was reading stories to them in an animated fashion. B| He had them sitting in front of him in a circle, as Y| though he were the elder of a tribe who was relating || myths of the tribe's gods. I noticed that the children R| followed his every move, and were totally engrossed in I| his performance. I watched and waited until the children C| went into a separate room for lunch, and Kirk was free H| for a while. A| He offered me some juice left over from the R| kindergarten snack time and then guided me to a window D| where we stared out over the city. It was a grand || perspective, one of the best, since the church sat on a d| high hill. From it we could see most of the major e| landmarks, different neighborhoods, and the downtown. G| I was so surprised by this new aspect of Kirk that I A| forgot what I was going to say. R| But he began quickly without my prompting.) I| ELBOD: History is neither dead or gone, even though S| about ten years ago,Dr. David Herbert Donald, a Pulitzer || Prize winning historian and Harvard history professor D| wrote a letter to the New York Times, stating that it O| was. And the very odd things is that no one since then B| has been able to refute his argument. L| What he said specifically was that history was no E| longer relevant to the modern world. To quote Dr. Donald, || "What undergraduates want from their history teachers is A| an understanding of how the American past relates to the L| present and the future. But if I teach what I believe to L| be the truth, I can only share with them my sense of the || irrelevance of history and of the bleakness of the new R| era we are entering." I| There may be a speck of truth in what he said, i.e. G| history probably cannot solve today's problems. But he H| has thrown the baby out with the bath water. History is T| our point of reference. It is how we got to the point we S| are at today. It is, in fact, who we are - but I am || getting ahead of myself. R| Look through the windows, here, out at the city. I E| have taken a sixty year old map of Durham and have driven S| through the town as though only the old roads existed. I E| saw what I thought I would see -- mostly old homes, old R| factories, old trees, old neighborhoods. When I followed V| the old map exclusively, I traveled the city as if it E| were old. It took a newer map to show me the newer parts. D| So know that the older map, which is out of date, has || meaning for me today. || And of course this is true for most towns unless C| there has been wholesale renovation. But even then I find O| it's very rare that a road, once built, is ever P| destroyed. A majority of the roads on the old maps still Y| exist today. You can, for example, still follow the Blue R| Highways marked on the Rand McNally road map published in I| 1920s. G| In fact if you look at maps of the Piedmont, H| hundreds of years old, you will see roads that roughly T| mark out where the fourlane interstate is today. It seems || that these roads had been an Indian trail before. 1| So I don't believe history is dead, any more than I 9| believe that what my parents did has had no effect on me. 8| Any more that I believe that what I teach these children 9| will have no effect on them even after I'm dead. Each of || us carries our history with us, even though we forget B| this in the present. Y| What Dr. Donald forgot is what I call the "vanishing || point" of history and time. R| TALBOT: Well tell me what it is, even though I'm I| sure you were going to anyway without my asking. C| (Kirk glared slightly at me, but with a tinge of a H| smile and continued) A| ELBOD: Saul Steinberg drew a famous New Yorker cover R| depicting a New Yorker's view of the world. It showed D| Manhattan as huge, all of New Jersey as smaller than NYC, || and the rest of the US diminishing in size and definition d| (with humorous titles) the further you went away from the e| city. Now this is a "vanishing point" view of the world. G| Meaning that the further you get from your point of A| reference, NYC in this case, what you envision, or R| imagine, gets increasingly smaller and less defined. I| When I visited Washington D.C. not too long ago, I S| noticed a rack of huge blow-ups of this New Yorker cover. || Only to my surprise, each one was from a different D| perspective. A view of the world from Hawaii , from O| Chicago, from Miami, etc. In each case the foreground B| "point of departure" was huge, such as Miami, and then L| increasingly the world got less and less defined and E| smaller and smaller the further you got from the initial || point. Someone had a great sense of humor to put these A| all together, so that you could buy your own biased view L| of the world. L| Me: (getting impatient) And what does this have to || with history? R| ELBOD: Simple. This is how we view time. Recent I| events in time loom very large, ones somewhat further G| away are less important, ones many years away, of very H| little importance. A vanishing point in time. T| And this is how it should be: recent events are S| going to have much more impact on us than events long || ago. R| Even historians recognize this. For example, when I E| took a basic Western History course in college, we spent S| more time on the Romans than the Egyptians. More time on E| the Renaissance than the Romans. More time on the modern R| world than on the Renaissance. In short the closer we got V| to the modern day, the more detail was covered. E| Now Dr. Donald of Harvard had been teaching for a D| number of years. When he started in the 1940s Teddy || Roosevelt and Franklin Roosevelt were very important. But || during his long career he decided that this time in C| history was less relevant than it used to be. When he O| thought about it, he realized it did not matter which P| Roosevelt carried the big stick, so he concluded that Y| history was not important. That you could go through life R| and live a perfectly useful, moral life without knowing I| about these things. G| However during his long career other events had H| overtaken him. Such as Korea, the cold war, Vietnam, the T| space program, and Watergate. Now these more recent || things are important to know. And it is only natural that 1| our view of the increasingly distant past will get vaguer 9| and vaguer as we keep up with more recent events. 8| TALBOT: So are you saying that it doesn't matter 9| whether we know about the American revolution? Is this || too distant for us to bother with? B| ELBOD: Yes and no.. I'm saying that very important Y| distant events which still affect us today, such as the || American revolution and the civil war, need to be R| understood in broad detail, but not fine detail. However, I| we ought to concentrate our efforts on recent history, C| three generations into the past. This time period is the H| most important. A| For example, I think today it is important to R| understand the history of the world from about 1930 to D| the present. This includes the causes leading to the 2nd || World War, the war itself, and the post war period. Again d| I would want to understand the most recent events in more e| detail than the more distant events. G| But the mistake is to think that history is dead and A| gone. History is alive. For example, our personal history R| is who we are. A family is its shared memories. I make I| choices based on my understanding of things my father did S| and maybe even my grandfathers. Further back than that my || "vanishing point" view of my personal history gets dim. D| But, Dr. Donald is advocating national amnesia. O| Imagine that each of us woke up one morning and could B| only remember the recent past. If you wanted to you could L| look up things in a book, as Dr. Donald suggested, but it E| was not in your memory. Where would you start? You would || not know where to begin. You would have no background A| information to work from, no frame work. L| In short people would feel dislocated, alienated, L| frustrated, out of place. And this is exactly what Dr. || Donald is advocating. R| Slaves in the south were kept in total ignorance as I| to their location. Even if they escaped, they did not G| know where to go and thus were easily captured and H| returned. So ignorance is a form of confinement, a T| limiting influence. Each of us needs to have "mental S| maps" of how the modern world came into being, so that we || can better understand our position in this world, how we R| got where we are. If this map is blank then we are flying E| blind. We are to some extent lost. And since time is one S| of the four dimensions of the world, as Einstein has E| stated, an ignorance about history means that a person's R| life is not fully realized; it is three dimensional but V| not four dimensional. E| (For a moment the sun broke through a hole in the D| clouds. Parts of the downtown were illuminated by shafts || of light, in brilliant highlights and shadows.) || Let me go back to the example of amnesia. If each of C| us woke up one morning and could not remember any O| history, even how the United States came into existence, P| e.g. not remember anything about the American revolution Y| or that we had immigrated from Europe, then I believe we R| could not function effectively as citizens. We could not I| make informed decisions about issues, understand our G| place in the world, or have an understanding of the laws H| that govern us. Therefore to answer Dr. Donald's implied T| question: under these circumstances, no, we could not be || good citizens. 1| Further history is not just what Harvard or any one 9| else says about it. It is an endless unbroken thread, 8| some of which is written down in books studied in college 9| and most of which isn't. As Gerda Lerner, author of the || Creation of Patriarchy said, we must distinguish between B| History, with a capital "H" and history with a small "h". Y| History with a capital "H" represents recorded and || interpreted history. And history with a small "h" R| involves unrecorded history and/or history which has not I| been focussed on and interpreted. Nowadays historians are C| reaching back into time and and revising a lot of our H| notions of how things occurred. In a manner of speaking, A| they are creating new histories, because they are R| collecting, arranging, and interpreting past events in D| new ways. || Historians of women, for example, are trying to d| discover the lost history of females. Because it is e| obvious that women have always been a past of history, G| but little has been included in History with a capital A| "H". So in a sense they are discovering the past. R| And history is allusive. Imagine that I made an I| appointment yesterday for a meeting tomorrow. Well S| yesterday is history but I'd better remember to be at my || appointment tomorrow or I'm in big trouble. To use the D| old joke, "Today is the tomorrow you worried about O| yesterday." This may seem like a simple example but where B| do you draw the line? Are things a year ago history and L| events since then current time? I know of a daughter who E| is suffering an ailment from a drug her mother took || thirty years ago, when her mother was pregnant with her. A| Is this where you draw the line? There are recurring L| histories of diseases and susceptibilities to diseases L| that run for generations through families and affect || people today. So where do you draw the line.? R| And if this is true for individuals then how true is I| it for nations? G| Recently the Russians and the Americans held a H| conference on what happened during the Cuban missile T| crisis. Now this event was over twenty-five years ago. S| Yet the conference was important and may affect us today. || Because through the conference the superpowers may have R| learned ways to prevent such a crisis from re-occurring. E| And another news item comes to mind. The queen of S| England has made plans to visit the U.S.S.R. Which will E| be the first time an English monarch has visited Russia R| since the execution of their ancestral cousins, the V| Romanovs, during the Russian revolution. And this visit, E| which reaches back into time about sixty years, will help D| thaw relations between England and the Soviets. So in || these two examples, it is clear that even the distant || past can effect the present. C| But we must come to terms with the dynamics of time O| and the human needs. Recent history has got to be more P| important than history ten years ago , which is still Y| more important than history twenty years ago and so on. R| Like looking into a mist. Things up close are distinct. I| Things get blurrier and blurrier until we really cannot G| make out much of anything. H| It still history but recent events, and those T| preceding them need to be given more weight. Which is as || it should be. 1| But if we forget all of the past in our mad rush 9| toward the new, we will have forgotten why we wanted all 8| these new things when we get there. 9| (He paused and I realized that I had said almost || nothing, in spite of my stern resolution to myself at the B| start of the interview. I began to speak but with one of Y| his looks he indicated to me that he was finished. He || lead me down the stairs, out the parking lot and then R| drove away in a '65 Ford Falcon with a loud engine. It I| seemed that our third interview was history.) C| H| A| R| D| INTERVIEW #4: TIME & HISTORY, PART 2 || d| e| (After thinking about Kirk Elbod's discussion of G| history, I decided this time to track him down myself. At A| the beginning of March around noon, I went to the old R| church where he had been teaching. The sky was stormy, I| with dark low hanging clouds. As I arrived, all hell S| broke loose. It seemed as if the skies had opened and || rain gushed from every gutter around the church. Water D| dripping from my clothes and my umbrella, I ran into the O| foyer. Kirk saw me coming and went into an adjoining B| room. I followed him. L| "Kirk, I have a number of questions that I want to E| ask you about our last interview", I said in my most || forceful manner. "Can we talk some time, soon?" A| Again he surprised me. "How about now, I'm going to L| go get some lunch." And without another word, he lead me L| down the stairs. We ran out through the rain, jumped into || his noisy 65 Falcon, and drove to a downtown lunch R| counter in Woolworth's department store. I| A number of people waved, and said hello as we G| arrived. We sat down on some old fashion rotating stools. H| The waitress came over and asked if he was going to have T| the "usual". "Yes," was the reply, "and one for my friend S| here as well." Then he turned to me.) || K.E. Your probably wondering why I brought you here R| (he said in a humorous tone of voice, recalling the old E| joke). It's because of the short order cook. S| TALBOT: (Getting a bit impatient) I don't care about E| the cook. I want to continue our discussion about R| history. V| ELBOD: Precisely my dear Talbot (he said again with E| a smirk). History is about time and our concept of time. D| Watch the short order cook! The way he perfectly balances || all the elements of an order so they come out all at the || same time. First the burger on the grill which takes the C| longest to cook. Then he slices some lettuce, tomato and O| puts it on the side. When the burger is almost done he P| toasts the buns under the grill, and when the burger is Y| completely done he toasts the cheese for just a second. R| Then, in one swift motion, he puts them all together on I| the plate, along with the mayonnaise and mustard and at G| last (we watched two burgers get passed to a waitress who H| put them in front of us) it arrives in front of me, with T| everything timed right. The perfect burger and the best || short order cook I've ever seen. (With this I only could 1| wait because he was devouring his burger, and it was 9| clear I would get no sentences out of him until he was 8| through. Together we sat in silence as we ate our food.) 9| Me: (finally when we had finished) I believe the || Harvard professor my be right. That we can lead perfectly B| good, useful lives, have children, be involved in our Y| community and not know much about history, except perhaps || a few essential facts. R| ELBOD: Superficially he is right. But the US is a I| democracy, and as such the people vote based on the C| information they have. What if their understanding is H| just plain wrong, and they make decisions based on a A| misunderstanding of history. R| TALBOT: I don't think it could be that serious. D| ELBOD: Judge for yourself. According to a poll most || Americans think today that the Russians fought on the d| side of the Nazi's in World War II. In fact the reverse e| is true - not only did the Russians fight against the G| Nazis, they suffered more deaths than any other single A| nation or ethnic group. R| TALBOT: And your point? I| ELBOD: That today, right now, we might be spending S| less money on armaments, and defense if the majority of || citizens believed the truth instead of misinformation. We D| might have saved billions of dollars if the public knew O| the facts. And this is just one example. B| Now, as you know I'm not suggesting that everyone L| know all the history there is. My notion of the E| "vanishing point of history" means that we mainly need to || understand recent history in detail, by which I mean A| about ten years before World War II to the present. L| But clearly a majority of people do not. L| TALBOT: Well, there will always be experts who can || interpret present events in terms of history for us. Why R| not leave it to them? I| ELBOD: Another specialist! (He almost shouted.) G| Specialization is an entirely another subject. But H| leaving history to the experts means that we will feel T| even more alienated than we already do in modern society. S| If we have to go to an expert to understand our own || past...(he made an exasperated expression, reaching his R| hands into the air) E| One of the main complaints I hear about the modern S| world is that people feel a lack of connection. A feeling E| of not engaging; alienation. But much of this is the R| fault of the individuals, not the big corporations and V| big government who usually get blamed. If you want to E| feel a part of your own time, and culture you need to do D| the work yourself; understand history yourself, for || example. || But also specialists, hired by certain people, can C| put their own interpretation, their own "spin" on O| history, which is what they do in Russia and what the P| Nazis did. In fact they can reinterpret history and Y| redefine history to suit whoever hires them. In the book R| "1984", George Orwell warned us against things like this. I| Is this what we want in a democracy? G| Let me give you a for instance. H| Suppose that the United States had fought for 2 T| years on Russian soil, aiding armies whose purpose was to || destroy Soviet Russia? If this were true, wouldn't it 1| explain some of the current Soviet attitude toward the 9| U.S., some of their military obsessions and paranoia. 8| TALBOT: Yes, but of course it isn't true. 9| ELBOD: Wrong, it is true. And very few people in the || U.S. are aware that this ever happened. United States B| forces were in Archangel and Siberia from 1918 to 1920 Y| aiding the White Army whose purpose was to destroy the || recently established Soviet government. R| Now a very interesting thing happens when you try to I| find this incident in a reference book, as Dr. Donald C| suggested we do. You don't find it, at least in half the H| books I read. It is not even mentioned. One sixth of the A| books got their facts wrong. And only one third of the R| books I referred to had their history correct. D| So this is what happens, even in a democracy, when || you try to look up an incident that everyone would rather d| forget. e| Let me attack the question from another perspective. G| Every time I see a news story on TV about a home being A| destroyed by fire, or tornado, or some such total R| disaster, the people invariably say "Even my photographs I| are gone." That's what they miss the most. Why? Because S| they can replace everything else, if they are insured, || but not the photographs. Part of them is gone. The photos D| which are their personal history have been lost, and they O| feel as though a piece of themselves was destroyed. Which B| it has been. L| Now those photos are history, not stuffy academic E| history but a personal, important, essential history || which is badly missed when it is eliminated. A| Dr. Donald's way of thinking cuts off our connection L| to the past. But history is our point of reference. It is L| where we come from. The past is where most of our || concepts, our culture, and our language originated. Why R| else would we use a word like "horsepower" to describe a I| highly technical, modern engine? (He laughed.) G| TALBOT: To go back to why you brought me here: You H| said that history had to do with our sense of time. T| ELBOD: Yes, and the short order cook here. S| Look at the cook again. Suppose he left the rolls in || too long and they burned, or he didn't cook the hamburger R| long enough so it was a bit raw. Then he wouldn't be a E| good cook. S| He is juggling, balancing each portion of the task E| so that even though the parts take different amount of R| time, they all are ready at the same time. A juggler, if V| you will. A time juggler in fact. And a very good one. E| TALBOT: And what does this cook have to do with D| history? || ELBOD: We think history is unimportant, because we || believe history is in the past and does not affect us. C| Dr. Donald's main criticism, in fact, was that the study O| of history was no longer relevant to today's world. But P| perhaps the past does effect us, more than we realize, in Y| the present. R| So the question really is one about time. Now, I do I| not pretend to begin to understand all the subtleties G| about time, but I do know that there is more to time than H| meets the eye. So let me indulge in some speculation T| here. || TALBOT: Why, that very humble of you Kirk. 1| ELBOD: What is time? This is the key question. What 9| is the past, the present , and the future? Once something 8| is done, can it be undone? Is their any point in crying 9| over spilt milk? We are always "another day older and || deeper in debt" and the river that you put you foot into B| is never the same. Is time the relentless forward Y| movement of the ticking clock? || It turns out that our sense of time, according to R| psychological studies, is triggered by events. When an I| event ends, one begins, or something significant happens C| within an event, then we feel the passage of time. In a H| sense the clock is a series of artificial, mechanical A| events which makes us acutely conscious of time, perhaps R| too conscious, or even self conscious - but I'll save D| that for another discussion. || However, life is lived by the ticking of events and d| more by the dynamics of events. It's as though each of us e| is a time juggler. We juggle a number of separate events G| in the air as we go though our lives. Not unlike the A| short order cook, only the events are larger. R| TALBOT: You've lost me completely. I don't I| understand. S| ELBOD: My point is that time is subtle. And events || which give us a sense of time also have dynamics all D| their own. There is time within an event to make changes, O| in a sense to go back into time, until that event is B| over. This idea is expressed, for example, in the phrase L| "in time." Such as: I caught the jug of milk "in time", E| to prevent it from spilling; because I knew that if the || jug fell and broke it would be too late; the event would A| be finished; and then there would be no use crying over L| spilt milk; instead I would be looking for the mop. L| TALBOT: Very cute Kirk (I said rather snidely) || ELBOD: (Ignoring me) The assumption is that the past R| is the past, over and done with - which is why people I| think they don't need to understand history. But my point G| is that time is in reality a myriad of overlapping H| events. And that within an event you may be able to - in T| a sense - reach back into time, by being able to affect S| changes. Or things from the past can effect the present. || Events are like time areas or time spaces. However, R| these spaces in themselves, are very subtle. They are E| like "windows of opportunity". The windows can close - S| sometimes suddenly and sometimes gradually. When they do, E| we can no longer affect changes: "the opportunity has R| been lost" or the "time is gone". V| We do this everyday, but don't really think about E| it. Before I leave the house to go on a trip I have the D| opportunity to remember a notebook I've forgotten, pick || it up, put it in the car. I can do this any time before I || leave. C| But once I've driven away then it become harder and O| harder to do this. Five minutes down the road I still P| could, although it would be annoying. Two hours down the Y| road and I'll just have to do the best with what I've R| got, make do without the forgotten notebook. The time to I| easily pick up the notebook and put it in my car is gone. G| And besides I've got to get to my appointments now and it H| would make me late. T| In an accident when things happen unexpectedly, || quickly, and violently we may only have split seconds to 1| try things, or do things before the accident has run it 9| course and whatever we do will be of no use. "What's done 8| is done". 9| These areas of time can be quite large such as the || life of a nation, an era, person's life time, or quite B| short as in an accident. There may be many separate areas Y| that overlap and interweave. Some may close imperceptibly || slowly, and others maddeningly quickly. Each area seems R| to have its own dynamics. I| As an occasional photographer, I know about this. C| Photographers in fact, seem to develop a sixth sense H| about time because frequently taking a photograph A| requires being at the right place at the right time, R| whatever that may be. For example, when I take nature D| pictures outdoors there may be hours when I can take a || number of pictures over and over until I get exactly what d| I want. But all the time the sun is moving, the clouds e| may be building. Suddenly I look up and there's a bank of G| clouds covering the sun and I realize that I can no A| longer take pictures that day. It may be a day, or a R| months before I can get back, according to my schedule or I| the weather. In the meantime the foliage may have changed S| or someone may have bought the land and bulldozed it, || which has happened more than once. When I return the D| place may or may not be the same as the time before. O| A death bed confession is an example of a person B| using a last opportunity to set things straight, to do L| something before they die, before the window closes on E| them and they can no longer act. What they confess may || have happened when they were very young, and they may A| have carried it all their lives. But before they die the L| window is still open for them to act. In effect, they L| want to reach back into time and set the record straight. || In a sense a person 's life, from birth to death is one R| event. I| TALBOT: (I could sense he was through.) So what your G| saying is that past, present, and future are not so clear H| as they appear to be and that some of history is still T| part of the present if we can only understand it in the S| proper light. || ELBOD: Yes, and also that we need to try to R| understand the dynamics of time, because as humans, in a E| sense, all we really have is time. S| (With a summing up sentence like that I knew that E| our interview was over. The storm had subsided. He gave R| me a ride back to the church and then quickly vanished V| upstairs. I tried to follow him and make our next E| appointment but couldn't locate him anywhere. It was as D| though he had disappeared in the church. And again I was || left with a strange taste in my mouth of having been || tricked in some fashion but also intrigued.) C| O| P| Y|